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Wandering Star's Posts and Other Poster's Replies To Wandering Star's Posts
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To Wandering Star's last 5 rumour replies
To Wandering Star's last 5 banter replies
Wandering Star's rumours posts with other poster's replies to Wandering Star's rumours posts
01 Dec 2024 11:51:37
Gary O'Neil has been called into a meeting apparently. Looks like he's having crisis talks with Moyes waiting in the wings.
1.) 01 Dec 2024 13:35:47
i pray to god that's not fake news my friend
2.) 01 Dec 2024 14:06:43
Sadly I think it is as Keen has tweeted today O'neil backs Sa.
3.) 01 Dec 2024 14:21:37
owners know more more when you sell if in the prem then champ ship so be cheaper to sack oneil now
4.) 01 Dec 2024 19:22:37
He should be, the stats speak for themselves. Worst manager of the modern era
Manager Games managed Wins Win percentage
Nuno Santo (May 2017 – May 2021) 199 95 47.7%
Paul Lambert (Oct 2016 – May 2017) 33 14 42.4%
Bruno Lage (June 2021 – Oct 2022) 51 19 37.25%
Julen Lopetegui (Nov 2022 – Aug 2023) 27 10 37.04%
Walter Zenga (Aug 2016 – Oct 2016) 17 6 35.3%
Gary O’Neil (Aug 2023 – Present) 60 20 33.3%
5.) 02 Dec 2024 06:52:18
Interesting statistics, thanks Ruiton.
I have tried to see the positives in our current manager, but Saturday was a watershed moment for me. Set-up wrong, leaving Dawson out criminal and poor tactics said a lot.
When he goes, we will still have some issues in the squad, so I am not optimistic about our future.
6.) 02 Dec 2024 08:11:33
i still believe we can still do it if we get rid now I still think jeff shi matt hobbs are part of the problem too
7.) 02 Dec 2024 19:51:56
Moyes tho?.really.hes just the new big sam.no thanks
8.) 05 Dec 2024 09:14:19
Gon doing a live interview on sky sports news today at 1.15pm hopefully he will be waving his p45
09 Nov 2024 13:07:21
Someone posted on X last night that David Moyes arrived at Birmingham Airport yesterday and will be present at today's match.
1.) 09 Nov 2024 13:57:44
Well, today is D Day.he has gone with 5 at the Back. Also Sarabia keeps his place. The manager has made his selection, will he be here at 5.00pm?
2.) 09 Nov 2024 14:13:23
Please not Sarabia!
3.) 09 Nov 2024 17:19:34
You were saying?
4.) 09 Nov 2024 18:36:34
Thats garbage.moyes would never be at the game.even just for his professional reputation.and I k ock sarabia but he does make intelligent runs.who is the lesser evil him or bellegarde.the win just papers over the cracks.we wer still garbage first half especially
5.) 10 Nov 2024 23:55:14
GON needs to go yes we beat Southampton but he doesn't know what to do with this squad and he will lose the morale of the squad the more this goes on.
We have an abundance of midfielders and forwards.
Whats striking is the teams doing well have loads of pace up front Forest, Newcastle, Villa and Liverpool have 6 forwards all with pace.
Maybe this is a reason some teams are struggling like Southampton, Wolves, Man U etc.
Personally I think Larsen isn't utilised effectively although the effort is there. He is a target man and we don't play crosses to him.
I'd like to see a cb come in as soon as possible Dendoncker would be a solid choice as he is good with the ball to feet and he is good at set pieces both defensively and attacking.Relatively cheap as well.
With regards to the manager I think we have to get someone that is able to go mid table and beyond that can attract different players to the club and that would be flexible to different tactics so we move to a back 4 in the future but not this season.
I wouldn't touch Moyes, Potter, Benitez.
I would look at someone like Sergio Conceição. Rogue I know but he can bring the best out of some of the youngsters we have like Cunha, Larsen, Andre, Gomez, Forbs, Rodrigo Gomez, RAN and Toti.
As he likes to overload when Porto attacked in his time there. And always leaves a threat up front similar to Cunha in his false 9 role for us last season.
But we can't leave it as it is in my opinion as from Fulham, Bournemouth and Everton we need 6 points.
6.) 12 Nov 2024 11:22:06
Madman I'm liking what you say, and agree on everything. Conceiro (? Spelling) as been my tip all along.
7.) 15 Nov 2024 01:33:38
The same Sergio Conceicao who's been tied with the Inter job and generally with some of the biggest clubs playing in the Euros?! Why exactly would he come to a club currently 19th in the table and with the 16th lowest wage budget in the league?! I like the idea but yet AGAIN it's another name that's frankly just not realistic! Peeps keep suggesting ambitious managers whilst seemingly forgetting that Lope walked for a reason! Sorry gents but there needs to a be a reality check on these pages, at this stage Sergio Concieao is about as realistic as us signing Talisca! Which to this day I'm still waiting for it to happen! ?
8.) 15 Nov 2024 01:42:05
Also Madman when you say he doesn't know what to do with this squad, just to check this is the same GON who did the double over Chelsea last season and beat Man City at home, right?! I mean, he seemed to know EXACTLY what to do with the squad on those match days didn't he?!
9.) 15 Nov 2024 06:13:48
Money talks. Which top manager would risk his career by coming to a club near the bottom of the league.
Didn't Lopetegui do just that for the princely sum of £8m a year.
10.) 15 Nov 2024 07:30:45
He did Wandering, after three attempts to sign him and then walked cause we lacked ambition, which didn't happen in a vacuum! Other managers would have seen that and it will make them even more cautious! Money does talk but like you said yourself it's not in short supply in Saudi but they aren't all heading there are they?! Cause money might talk but a career is not that long so they all need to pick there clubs VERY carefully! Would you pick us over Inter if you were Sergio?! ?
11.) 15 Nov 2024 08:46:10
As they say 'If you don't ask, you don't get'.
If the problems were as bad as you suggest and were indeed the driving force behind Nuno leaving and Bruno Lage not being supported, and were common knowledge (you would have thought that Lopetegui had spoken to Jorge Mendes as they were close at the time and represents both of the previous managers, you really do have to ask why on earth he took the job in the 1st place?
Maybe the finances weren't as bad as the media portrayed or he went for the money. Either way we don't know.
12.) 15 Nov 2024 08:49:48
But personally, I would look at Edin Terzic if we were to sack GON, however it looks like he's going to West Ham as a replacement for Lopetegui who is on the verge of being sacked.
13.) 15 Nov 2024 11:37:02
Madman did you say Dendonkey? I jest, never minded the fella but I don’t think he’s the solution to our defensive woes. I don’t know what the answer is personally, we need more cover at the back that’s for sure but even someone new needs blooding in, January panic buying by GoN or by someone else it’s a gamble and all we can do is hope it’s the right gamble at the time.
Given the choice I’d prefer Potter over others and despite how things are going currently I’m willing to back GoN to prove he is what we thought he could be, a decent manager.
Watching Ait Nouri on Saturday was one of the most infuriating things to see this season so far, all the talent but he doesn’t look like his head is in the game, Lemina was dropping his head as well at times, painful.
Cunha is world class on a side note and I really like Larsson. If we can keep hold of them and build around them I think we have a chance, just need to steady the ship and utilise what we have.
TLDR; I’m in the potter camp if we do change manager
07 Oct 2024 14:51:18
Eds, any idea what the Man City sponsorship ruling means for clubs.
Hearing on the radio that in effect it means that clubs with very rich owners can now basically sponsor their own club at vastly inflated rates and in effect spend as much money as they want and the example they gave was Newcastle can get sponsored by a PIF company for an unlimited amount.
{Ed002's Note - It means that compnies associated with ownership can now sponsor clubs more easily and that director loans will have to be dealt with in the same way as commercial loans - so clubs relying on low or interest free loans are likely to have Profit and Sustainability issues.}
26 Aug 2024 19:58:46
Apparently Burnley have done us over again.
Burnley and Wolves agreed a fee of £15m for Luca Koleosho on Friday.
Player has apparently agreed terms and was due to travel to Wolves on Tuesday for his medical and contract signing.
Burnley have now had a bid of £20m from an unknown club and have asked Wolves to match the bid.
Koleosho does not want to move the other club and is hoping Wolves put in a new bid but it looks unlikely seeing as Burnley had already agreed a fee.
1.) 26 Aug 2024 20:41:54
Well if they want to play devils advocate, let them, personally a winger is not priority, maybe a LB coming in would allow us to use Nouri in a more attacking role.
2.) 27 Aug 2024 10:17:49
Burnley have done nothing wrong here except the jobs they are paid for! If we are failing to get players over the line that's on our club no one elses!
If we had been offered an extra £5-10m by another club for Neto would you not have expected is to take it?! Behave, we should all know this market by now and until the players holding the shirt any clubs bid can be topped!
Everyone keeps saying how great Hobbs is but the proof will be in the pudding come the end of deadline day. Look at Brighton, I first read about them bidding for O'Riley on Friday morning, the deal was agreed with a medical penciled in less than 24 hours later! With Wolves on the other hand we just read about the deals for a week BEFORE the players signed by someone else (please see O'Shea)! We are getting beaten in the market by newly promoted clubs and when that's the case I'm afraid it's an US problem rather than a THEM problem! Let's see what happens cause if we don't get this right we really are in trouble! ?
3.) 27 Aug 2024 11:03:38
Just read we had a £20 mil offer rejected last week. So all this we don’t want to offer the same as another team seems to be more made up stories.
4.) 27 Aug 2024 11:59:36
That is true in a world where players aren’t humans and don’t have a choice. He doesn’t want to go to the other club. Also they accepted our offer and now reject it? It’s call gazumping and only a fool or a crook would defend it.
So if you offered to pay me for my car, ageee a wage and you drive to pick it up only to be told “oh someone offered me 33% more so either equal it or you’ve wasted money and time and can jog on” would you say “oh well off I go” … no, you would feel rightly aggrieved. And that’s just a car.
Leave him. Tell him we will be back next summer and get him to refuse to sign a contract. Let’s see how they are when they are still in championship with the end of the parachute payments in the horizon.
5.) 27 Aug 2024 12:36:05
The point is Bullysboy that Burnley have twice agreed a fee with the club regarding their players and allowed us to schedule the medicals. We agreed to pay THEIR asking price so once a deal was agreed, then Burnley should have allowed us to complete but instead, they allowed another club to offer more rven though they had agreed a deal with us.
6.) 27 Aug 2024 12:36:44
You can feel aggrieved all you want Fenir but your still going to be walking home! Sorry but if your a grown adult and haven't yet realised that you are operating in a capatalist society then your never going to be able to complete the purchase of a player (or car) anyway!
It's fine to say just leave them but they won't be there next season, just ask Dara O'Shea! We can tell ourselves all we want that he 'wanted' to come to us but the reality is he will be playing for Ipswich! As I've said before I fully accept that the club have pre set limits on all transfers. However, part of that is also accepting you may miss our on your targets!
Welcome to the real world of modern football gents, until a contract is signed no deal is agreed! If we haven't learnt that yet (after what happened with Marquinos) then I REALLY do despair! ?
7.) 27 Aug 2024 13:23:44
Remember the Joao Gomes deal? Flamengo and Wolves agreed a deal but Lyon tried to hijack it at the last minute. Wolves walked away, Joao Gomes said he wasn't going to move to Lyon. Lyon caved and Gomes came to us. Its about morals not money. Burnley could have easily said that they were waiting on other clubs bidding but didn't. They agreed a deal with us and then moved the goal posts.
8.) 27 Aug 2024 13:52:14
Wandering- sorry fella but ALL of what you said there is pure conjecture! No one knows weather we had a medical booked in and even if we did it clearly wasn't quick enough was it?! Like I say look at the way Brighton do business, the first story breaks saying there's interest and the second story breaks saying they've signed! Anything other than that is on OUR club. It's Burnleys job to get the most they can for their players and by the sound of it we have helped them do that twice and have nothing to show for it! If true then we are getting played by a team in the league below us, leading me to ask AGAIN who is at fault here them or us?
9.) 27 Aug 2024 13:56:38
None of us really know what’s gone on behind the scenes. As I stated earlier there’s articles saying we have had a £20min bid rejected by Burnley. So all this speculation that Burnley have agreed lower fees then gone back on their word is purely that, speculation. And if recent reports are to be believed, then none of its true. Which means people are criticising the club and Burnley for no reason other than the fact we haven’t got anyone in yet. So who knows if we went in for O’Shea, or the other fella from Burnley. I suspect that after Wednesdays game we will know more as to if we have any interest in their players.
10.) 27 Aug 2024 15:32:18
Maybe, Koleosho will sign on Thursday after playing against us the night before.
11.) 27 Aug 2024 19:31:31
They're refusing 25m now if you believe the reports.
23 Aug 2024 15:35:24
So Liam Keen has said that the John Percy £20m transfer kitty story was rubbish and the club have apparently said that money is available but they won't overpay for players.
Wandering Star's banter posts with other poster's replies to Wandering Star's banter posts
05 Dec 2024 16:45:05
If we GON, who will honestly want to come in and risk their reputation by working with this joke of board? GON was the cheap option after Lopetegui exposed them but add to this., which half decent player will want to come in and become part of this comedy act?
The likes of Harry Maguire could come in on loan and shore up our defence but will Shi release any money for us to pay his wages? I think not.
The best we'll get is an older player on a free looking for one last payday or an inexperienced youngster.
I have no faith in Fosun especially since GON has admitted that Lima, Forbs. Rodrigo and Meupiyou were not earmarked to actually play this season.
And I have no faith that GON can set us up to win.
1.) 05 Dec 2024 16:58:09
As things stand Wandering probably no one would.
Someone wrote that the Club acknowledges that they let GON down in the last window but I'd be surprised if, nevertheless, they weren't talking to potential replacements or at least the rumours seem to imply that they are.
So without going over old ground will Fosun's stated desire to stay in the Premier League be at all cost. If it's yes, then they may be forced to change their ways simply to attract a Manager/Coach good enough to pull us out of the mire. That would be music to my ears because it would not only give us chance to survive this season, but in future ones as well.
2.) 05 Dec 2024 17:18:24
Haha, it is funny Wandering when you think about it fella! We have both spent the last month or so debating with you blaming GON and me blaming Fosun. Now we seem to both finally agree that both need replacing, what a difference a game makes eh! ?
Not sure either will happen mind, cause it doesn't seem to be in the club's interests?!
3.) 05 Dec 2024 17:52:25
Indeed Bullysboy.
After last night, especially given the performance, I don't think GON has any credit left in the bank and Fosun lost the fans respect a while ago.
05 Dec 2024 12:49:02
If he hasn't been sacked by the end of today, he won't be sacked at all. Seems that Fosun are happy with 3 wins in 25 games.
1.) 05 Dec 2024 13:27:51
Fossum self sustain business model is killing us. Afraid we will end up with a new Lage/GON copy. But still hoping for a Christmas miracle.
2.) 05 Dec 2024 13:41:57
There are reports he's staying for West ham game -Sky sports.
Reports we've offered Potter the job but that he wants the west ham job if lopetegui goes. News now.
Nothing from the club.
3.) 05 Dec 2024 13:56:40
Potter must have turned us down, with no Plan B, so GON stays at least until after the West Ham game. Wasn’t keen on Moyes but after our defence imploding in the last two matches, I think his pragmatic approach might be what is needed.
Even in the few games we have competed in this season, it is impossible to see what it is we are trying to do. Everything looks very haphazard, with our press when applied being anything other than co-ordinated. Some players are really trying their best and putting in a shift, but they are doing so as individuals, not as a team. All eight goals conceded in the last two games were avoidable and were the result of individual and collective errors. Very lucky to escape with just the four against last night, less profligate forwards and a different referee could have seen Everton get double figures! It really was that bad!
4.) 05 Dec 2024 13:58:42
Then the fans need to make a noise, protest at matches, outside the stadium, refuse to buy merch and so on.
Only way Fosun will learn is if they're hit where it hurts in the pocket.
5.) 05 Dec 2024 14:41:27
Agreed Rated-time for apathy to be annexed
6.) 05 Dec 2024 14:42:08
Let’s face it I’m really wound up thought he would have gone today
Well get ready for the championship if we stick with Barry Gibbs aka mr O’Neil
7.) 05 Dec 2024 20:37:20
I think the problem is that GON is ultimately likeable, and no one really doubts that he is working hard and doing his best.even that's not good enough. It's difficult to get really angry with him when we all know in our hearts that the the real problem runs far deeper.
28 Nov 2024 15:36:34
Isn't it funny that when Wolves were playing badly, all the blame was aimed at Jeff Shi and how he appointed a novice manager but now we are 4 games unbeaten, all the praise goes to Matt Hobbs on identifying GON but nothing for Shi who appointed Hobbs in the first place.
1.) 28 Nov 2024 17:47:01
Works both ways though doesn't it Wandering, cause you were regularly calling for GON to be sacked. Can't remember you ever suggesting to sack the guys that had JUST given him a 4 year contract did you?! ?
2.) 28 Nov 2024 17:49:41
Thinking about it in fact your statement simply is not true! Almost everyone on this page was blaming GON! For every one post calling for Shi to be sacked I can show you ten calling for GON to be sacked, half I'd which were yours! Just saying ?
3.) 28 Nov 2024 18:09:55
Again you've missed the point. This isn't about GON, it is about the changing perception of Shi.
4.) 28 Nov 2024 18:19:56
I stand by what I said about GON. But what you seem to have forgotten is that I also said although I thought he'd taken us as far as he could, I hoped he could prove the vast majority of the fans wrong, which fair play to him, he is starting to do and if he did, I'd happily admit I was wrong.
But then again, all you've done is slate Fosun recently and accused them of mismanaging the club. You've even backed up TFIOG with his assessment of the club's finances even though you've done no research.
5.) 28 Nov 2024 18:23:00
And again you've missed the point. People will always choose to blame whoever fits their greater narrative, which is precisely what you've done for the last month. Seems odd to now blame other people for doing the EXACT same thing from the other side of the fence! ?
6.) 28 Nov 2024 18:26:09
Oh I've done plenty of research cheers Wandering. It's just like Future I see very little point in debating it with someone that has consistently shown that they don't have a basic grasp of how profit and loss accounts affect overall balance sheets is all ?
7.) 28 Nov 2024 18:49:21
So tell me then why Wolves have posted a loss of £64m NOT £107m oh wise one.
8.) 28 Nov 2024 18:51:27
Let's just agree to disagree, time will tell won't it. Because if you are indeed correct we can look forward to going from strength to strength in the transfer market, something we have not done since Nuno left. Let's hope your right and the money is just waiting to be spent, considering we were outbid by Ipswich in the last window I won't hold my breath mind!
9.) 28 Nov 2024 19:26:50
As you once said Bullysboy, a simple search of Google will give you the answers. Try it yourself and look at the figures. I mean surely the club wouldn't announce such a massive discrepancy.
10.) 28 Nov 2024 21:27:04
OK Wandering last chance to make you happy.
Firstly you don't have to worry about Wolves's returns to HMRC. They are the figures I have pointed out to you. You have correctly copied them off of the internet just misunderstood them.
Secondly You state they made an operating loss of £97m, paid interest of £10.4m (net) and made a profit on player sales of £43m to give a pre tax loss of £64m.
This is completely CORRECT!
Now pre, (that means before!), player sales, they made an operating loss of £97m and paid interest of £10.4m.
Add those two figures together and you get a pre player sales loss of over £107m.
Is that clear?
Why did I mention pre player sales profits?
I have explained this several times already but in case you don't recall it was because I was commenting on our underlying on going business i.e. things that are likely/predicted to happen again next year.
We obviously can't sell Neto and Kilman next year and we have no control over the market for our other players, (to illustrate this I referenced our very own debate on this site re RAN - one of the players considered likely to be sold).
So for stability you need to be able to see/control your future finances.
ps Brighton the poster boys for making profits from player sales made a profit in 2023 of £10m before player sales i.e. they didn't NEED to sell anyone but chose to do so and spectacularly well making £121m meaning they had a pre tax profit of £131m
Finally re RAN in cash terms if we sell for £30m we will pay the option of £9.5m and keep £20.5m. We do not have to pay the £10m purchase price you mention as that was paid when we bought him in the summer of 2021.
In profit terms if we sell him for £30m this coming summer i, e. 4 years after he signed a 5 year contract he will be in the book at £2m - after amortisation - and we make a £28m profit.
The option however makes this more complicated but at £30m we will undoubtedly pay the option of £9.5 and thus merely make £18.5m.
Cash and profits on sales are different numbers - unless it is a homegrown player or a player whose first contract has expired.
Is that clear?
Eastmids can you please peruse the figures above and from Companies house and reassure Wandering that neither Wolves or I are telling people fibs!
11.) 28 Nov 2024 23:47:01
Thank you Future buddy, as always that was FAR more succinct than I could manage! Funny thing is Wandering (ironically) I get the impression that you think I'm just sticking up for my chum (and yes I do see Future as a chum on here) but you miss the fundamental reason I say you can trust him. Put simply buddy, I was in your exact same position about 3/4 years ago! Historically, myself and Future have had some enjoyable back and forths (many times:) and what I quickly came to realise is that the guy knows his numbers! Far better than I do I might add, but it's also worth noting here that during those debates I (politely, without name calling like 'wise one') asked him to explain it to me. And much like above (when asked politely) he did so incredibly well! What he pointed out to me was that despite my desperation to argue that Jeff was doing a good job, that quite frankly he wasn't! The point that Future is making to you (and to me years before) is that that the ONLY way this club grows enough to keeps it's best players (and therefore TRULY grow as a squad) is by increasing its revenue streams beyond player sales!
Like I say I started this debate with Future before Covid and to date nothing has really changed! We are sill relying on player sales to prop up the balance sheet and until that changes we are NEVER going to really grow as a club!
I (genuinely:) understand why you get/feel frustrated cause I've been through the same realisation buddy! Future helped explain it to me (very well I might add) and in doing so he helped me see the reality that until we are run like a PROPER (profitable) club (please see Brighton) then we aren't going to progress! This is why I trust Futures take on such things, cause he has been (very kindly:) educating me on it for years now! And FYI turns out he was right all along and we were/are wrong!
I don't blame Jeff personally, he's just a mounth piece. Sadly though it has become pretty clear that to Fosun we are just a relatively small and now redundant part of their portfolio. As long as we aren't costing um much they don't care and as long as that's the case (as Jeff has pretty much said himself) mid table mediocrity is about the best us Wolves fans can hope for! Sad but true! Like yourself, for me it was kind of a blue pill/red pill scenario!
The REAL question is though Wandering is that as a Wolves fan are you happy to have mid table as our best case scenario?! Nuno wasn't, niether was Lope which is why they are gone! And according to Jeff as a fan if you want more than that we can go to! Is that what we want for our club?!
12.) 29 Nov 2024 06:14:15
TFIOG, o have looked at the full figures where as you clearly haven't. Why have you added the £10.7m interest just to the £97m pre tax losses?
20% of £97m is nearer £20m.
The £10.7m interest is 20% of the £53m loss.
But you must be right but please confirm how Wolves got to the -£64m figure.
Yesterday you said the £107m was made up of the £64 loss + the £43m profit but today you've used different figures. Make up your mind.
And Bullysboy, thanks for confirming that you blindly follow anyone who suits your agenda without doing any research yourself.
I hope you've both reported the club to the Tax Man.
13.) 29 Nov 2024 06:52:06
I don't understand why your transfixed on the £107m loss only. Surely you have to add any profit to any accounts.
14.) 29 Nov 2024 07:11:26
I agree Bullysboy in that I am not happy for mid table mediocrity and I understand why Lopetegui moved on but in relation to Nuno, there were a number of other factors such as the pandemic changing the shape of our financial picture due to vastly reduced income. But more importantly were 2 other factors. 1: Nuno not being able to travel home to see his family which he himself stated affected his mental health and 2: The injury to Raul which affected the entire squad. The transfer/finances added to his frustrations.
15.) 29 Nov 2024 09:54:03
Future, yes your figures are absolutely correct both on profits and RAN.
Wandering, you clearly have no idea on accounts. I think you are confusing (or at least I hope it's confusion, or you'd best never take out a loan) interest with tax. Only the credit cards land pay day loans would attract anything like 20% and it wouldn't be attached to any profit figures only loans taken out for whatever reason.
16.) 29 Nov 2024 13:45:51
This is what Wolves posted on 2nd March 2024 to the website which is the same as the paperwork submitted to Companies House:
Wolves have released headline financial information for the year ending 31st May 2023, confirming a net loss of £67.2m.
The accounts reflect the 2022/23 season, which was the seventh under the ownership of Fosun and the fifth consecutive season in the Premier League.
In terms of results on the pitch, the men’s first-team experienced a more challenging campaign compared with previous years and, after a mid-season change in management, finished with a total of 41 points in 13th position.
Revenue for the year reached £168.6m (£165.5m in 2022). This can be attributed to an increase in Premier League broadcasting rights offsetting the impact of lower metrics of both merit payment in 2022/23 (13th placed finish rather than 10th) and live TV facility fee broadcasting revenue streams (Wolves matches were broadcast 12 times on UK television compared to 16 times in 2021/22).
Furthermore, the season also saw a higher number of home games due to the club’s Carabao Cup campaign, which saw the team play three matches at Molineux, increasing matchday driven revenue streams such as ticketing and matchday hospitality, before exiting in the quarter-finals.
All matches in the year were played in front of close to capacity crowds, with an average attendance of 31, 346 (30, 725 in 2021/22).
Player trading in the year generated profit of £43.9m (£50.1m loss in 2022) through disposal of players’ registrations, driven by the sales of Morgan Gibbs-White, Willy Boly, Leander Dendoncker, Ruben Vinagre, Connor Ronan, Leo Campana, Sangbin Jeong and crystalising contingent fees for Diogo Jota, Rafa Mir and Rui Patricio.
However, this was outweighed by higher amortisation and impairment charges on player registrations, totalling £82.4m, driven by further investments in the first team and Academy, including the acquisitions of Nathan Collins, Hwang Hee-Chan, Matheus Nunes, Goncalo Guedes, Sasa Kalajdzic, Diego Costa, Matheus Cunha, Mario Lemina, Craig Dawson, Pablo Sarabia, Dan Bentley and Joao Gomes. This results in a net player trading loss of £38.6m.
Operating costs also increased in this period, in part due to the departure of head coach Bruno Lage and his support staff in October 2022, and the appointment of Julen Lopetegui in November 2022, and also due to increases in player payroll as part of investment in the first team.
Overall, the financial loss for the year, after interest and tax, was £67.2m (loss of £46.1m in 2022).
17.) 29 Nov 2024 13:46:25
Interesting debate gents, but in truth I feel it may just all be numerical semantics.
We are fans of a club whose owners currently have just one ambition, survive in the Premier League as cheaply as possible and they've put that on Jeff Shi to make it happen. Now that might not be forever under Fosun, but it is for the foreseeable future as they struggle to rebuild their financial credibility.
As Bullys commented mid table mediocrity would be perfect for them and the club as even an excursion into Europe right now would be an issue. The fans would demand that we maintain/improve on that progress but they won't or probably can't pay for that right now. The club left relatively unsupported financially would certainly struggle.
The reasons for this have been much debated but without a hike in other incomes, there's only player sales left as a way of raising cash, so don't bother having player names printed on your shirts would be my advice.
18.) 29 Nov 2024 15:29:52
So regarding RAN, we paid £10m, there's a £9.5m option and we sell hom for £30m.
How do we make £20.5m?
19.) 29 Nov 2024 17:08:40
I've asked the same thing but apparently, according to TFIOG, Bullysboy and Eastmidswolf it's all about amortisation. Maybe they can enlighten you too.
20.) 29 Nov 2024 18:01:50
No point enlightening you Wandering, each of us have tried and all we've got is a mouthful telling us that you know better despite ALL the evidence to the contrary! Can't be bothered to debate with someone that doesn't seem grown up enough to debate to be honest! You've taken not a word a single person has said on board, it's the equivalent of a toddler standing in the corner shouting the wrong answer over a teacher! It's boring and not what I come on these pages for! ?
21.) 29 Nov 2024 19:39:57
Just answer the question then Bullysboy.
Why have Wolves posted them figures.
And please enlighten me how we stand to make the £20m+ profit on AIT.
No point dismissing what I'm saying. All I've been told by 3 of you on here is that I've misread the statement.
22.) 30 Nov 2024 15:10:15
Hi Everyone
I read with interest and some not little amusement the recent comments about Wolves 2022/2023 accounts.
I have posted this extract from the audited accounts at Companies House before but do it again so that the figures are readily viewable.
Turnover 169
Operating costs excluding player amortisation
and profit on sale figures -184
Operating loss -15
Loss on player trading -39
loss before interest -54
Interest -10
Loss for the year -64
The loss on player trading is made up as follows
Amortisation of fees -82
Profit on sale of player registrations 43
As Above -39
So different posters have combined the above figures in different ways eg
The future is gold added all the figures except profit on sale to arrive at a loss of 107 million this is accurate but in my view totally selective if not misleading.
If I combine all of the figures except the amortisation of fees we arrive at a profit if 18 million this is equally selective and even more misleading.
In the audited accounts the figure of loss on player amortisation less profit on player sales is shown in a totally different column to the other operating costs. Clearly the people who prepared the accounts and audited the accounts intended the figures should be viewed together not separated as in the 2 examples above.
if we look at the profit and loss account any competent accountant would tell you the stand out figure is the amortisation figure of 82 million, in essence Wolves for several years bought players badly I am sure you can all think of players whose amortisation of fees is included in the above but have made little or no positive contribution to the club.
Many on here have commented forget the player transfer problems the solution lies in increasing other forms of income. Wolves have a stadium the capacity of which is the fourteenth highest in the premier league. So 13 clubs have higher gate receipts probably more shirt sales more sales of matchday refreshments and arguably are more attractive to sponsors. So looking from a a commercial clout perspective Wolves in the long term are likely to be a club whose average position is in the bottom half of the premier league. This may not be what we all want but it may well be the reality.
Just to conclude others have made comments about the suitability or otherwise of posters to comment about Wolves accounts. I am happy to share that prior to my retirement I was a chartered accountant for 50 years so a know a little bit about preparing, auditing and presenting accounts
We may disagree about interpretation of matters on here but I am sure we just wish the best for Wolves and hope we are still in the premier league next season.That for me at least will be a success from where we are now.
Wolves 1960
23.) 30 Nov 2024 16:36:06
Thank you 1960!
I always made clear it was pre player sales figure.
I accept that this is a distinctive way of looking at the accounts, but my point, in answer to a comment on"stability", was that the amortisation of £82m sadly is now part of our on going underlying business, is predictable and repeatable (albeit it will be different number next year as some players will have amortised to zero and of course we have no visibility on player purchases/sales), therefore we can not ignore it.
However player sales are one offs, unpredictable and to a very large extent out of the control of the club - i.e. how much will we get for RAN if we choose to sell him - see thread.
Thus in any debate on "stability" my view, backed by the "canon" of Prudency, is that it is dangerous to include something you have little control over or visibility of.
I assume you can also explain why the cash received in the accounting period that we sell RAN for the putative £30m is not the same as the profit and that in neither cash terms or profit terms will the £10m paid 4 years ago be included in the calculation. I gather RAN signed a 5 year contract and thus will be amortised to £2m by the time he is "sold" in the summer of 2025?
Many thanks once again to you, (and Eastmids who I gather is also an accountant) for your contributions.
24.) 30 Nov 2024 19:09:52
For the future is gold
To calculate the profit on sale of RAN obviously requires assumptions.
So I have made the following assumptions
Sale is in summer of 2025 for £30 miiion
Fee to buy out sell on clause is £9.5 million
Unamortised part of original transfer fee is £2 million
Wolves will receive £30 million but pay out £9.5 million leaving net proceeds of £20.5 million.
Deduct the unamortised balance of £2 million results in a profit of £18.5 million.
Obviously the result depends on the assumptions made if only our new Chancellor understood that. Sorry totally irrelevant but often her figures do not seem to make sense.
Hope that is helpful.
Wolves1960
27 Nov 2024 22:32:05
Who is right regarding the finances submitted by the club, me or TFIOG?
1.) 28 Nov 2024 07:15:08
The difference being Wandering is that you seem to be accounting for RAN's purchase price (fee) if I understand you correctly and TFIOG isn't.
However, players sometimes appear to be sold cheaply because their value on the books is written down year on year, therefore, their value to the club, on paper can be quite small.
I can't remember how much Wolves paid for RAN but if it was 9.5M and he's been here for 3 years then he only owes the club less than a third of that now. The other two thirds being spent as part of the costs of employing him. Add in his wages as well and you would wipe out most of any profit anyway. This is why Prem clubs need massive annual incomes to offset these costs.
Both ways of looking at it are correct but not the full picture in reality. In your example you would have to use the value on the books after write down, not the purchase price because the balance has already been paid off.
Am I wrong?
2.) 28 Nov 2024 08:38:31
I'm asking about the £107m debt that TFIOG is adamant about, not the Ait Nouri deal.
3.) 28 Nov 2024 09:09:45
I haven't checked Wandering but I'm not sure I need to because in all the years I've been reading Futures posts the one thing I never debate him on is his grasp of the numbers! I gave up checking after about the third time he proved me wrong to be honest! As a general rule the guy knows his numbers VERY well, far better than most on this board in my experience! ??
4.) 28 Nov 2024 09:30:16
Sorry WS misread your comment, In my defence it was quite early lol. Having said that I don't seem to be receiving all comments posted as some conversations seem to have comments missing.
5.) 28 Nov 2024 10:38:02
BullysBoy, I appreciate your support of TFIOG but to come out and defend them without actually looking at the figures isn't the answer.
What TFIOG has stated by his post is that Wolverhampton Wanderers FC have posted the wrong information on the website and are lying to all of us fans as well as the HMRC. That is a bold statement. I just wanted someone to look at the numbers and see who is wrong, TFIOG or the club.
6.) 28 Nov 2024 15:56:22
Any way score predictions for sat folkes
7.) 28 Nov 2024 16:25:04
3-1 Wolves. Cunha brace and Dawson
8.) 28 Nov 2024 18:13:03
Fair enough, but you asked for an opinion and that's mine. To be honest I think you are debating two different things (profit with player sales included or profit without). Nothing Future has said suggest for a moment that the club have lied, what it suggests is that they are posting the numbers to fans in the most generous possible terms, in which case that's what pretty much every single business does when presenting stuff to Stakeholders. Its just basic PR and fairly standard practise to be honest so not really sure what your point is?
9.) 29 Nov 2024 17:11:27
I just want TFIOG to explain how he got to the £107m figure. Nothing more, nothing less.
And also how we make a £20.5m profit on RAN if we sell him for £30m.
Once he does, I'll stop asking.
23 Nov 2024 16:59:12
That humble pie is going to taste very nice tonight.
Massive result for us tonight.
Maybe GON us the right man for the job.
Well played boys.
1.) 23 Nov 2024 17:12:20
Wooohooooo. Why was I scared. Fair play wolves. Well done boys. After the first 15-20 mins of settling down a bit we played well. Very happy. Cunha, simply breathtaking. What a player. When he goes we need to only listen to offers over 100m. He is easily one of the top 5 players in the prem. World class.
Now I hope we kick on over the next few fixtures to potentially be in a much healthier position by Christmas.
2.) 23 Nov 2024 17:12:36
And found a good alternative at Cb with Lemina which then allows Andre and Gomes in midfield which suits them.
3.) 23 Nov 2024 17:25:45
Looks like lemjna is made for central defence.
The midfield seemed to be a bit more settled today aswell.
Cunha'two great finishes and the other two weren't to be sniffed at, not sure what Oniel has done or said to the team but it's worked.
Let's hope he can get them to kick on now and get some momentum going.UTW
4.) 23 Nov 2024 17:30:50
I met our previous owner Steve Morgan, and his wide Sally, in a business meeting in London yesterday. I wondered to myself if he would be at Craven Cottage today but I thought it might be too personal to ask as I don't know him. If he was at the match today he brought us luck! Sweet revenge too as I was at that fixture last season and we got well and truly shafted by VAR. I couldn't go today and I don't know how to stream matches, so I missed a good one.
5.) 23 Nov 2024 17:33:57
Well that was totally unexpected, but fair play and well done Wolves and GON. Hopefully onwards and upwards now. It certainly seems that the players still have faith in GON and he hasn't lost the dressing room.
6.) 23 Nov 2024 17:39:39
Agree didn't see it coming today.
But wow. I'm amazed. Let's kick on
And see what we can achieve
7.) 23 Nov 2024 17:46:05
Great result, but let's not get carried away, as others said we need a good January window. Our midfield and attacking players are top quality but we do need reinforcement at the back. We'll done the management and squad.
8.) 23 Nov 2024 18:01:50
Second half we wanted to play in their half rather than playing it sideways and backwards in our half. Leave that to Man City Gary we are not good enough to do that. Get the ball up the other end, we can score goals.
9.) 23 Nov 2024 20:39:06
Was good to see today.no passing back and looking to get fwd all the game.makes a nice change.and made a bog difference.still don't rate bellegarde tho.id like to see more of forbs
Wandering Star's rumour replies
05 Dec 2024 20:55:25
Whilst we should be looking at the likes of Xavi and Edin Terzic as our next manager, sadly I feel that Fosun will limit themselves to either David Moyes or Steve Cooper.
05 Dec 2024 20:20:38
This looks like the Lopetegui scenario again when he agreed to remain as manager until the new guy was found.
05 Dec 2024 16:01:18
Well if we are Potters 2nd choice, tell him to do one. We don't need people who ain't committed to the cause.
27 Nov 2024 22:12:45
I do understand maths. We pay £9.5m We sell for £30m = £20.5m profit.
But as you say we leave the clause in place so that means we give £10.25m to Angers.
Or we pay Angers the £9.5m buy out fee so we have paid £9.5m for the player plus £9.5 to Angers so £19m in total. We sell for £30m so that means £11m profit.
Please explain what Amortisation is as I understand it to be the action or process of reducing or paying off a debt with regular payments.
So although we may be paying any transfer fee/buyout fee over a period of time, the bottom line is that we will still pay the asking/agreed price.
And before you try and insult me again by saying I should ask someone who understands, I have whereas you clearly haven't hence you thinking we lost £107m last year.
27 Nov 2024 20:47:48
Is it really worth it then?
We paid £9.5m for him so if we sell him for £30m without buying out the 50% clause, we make £10.25m profit.
If we do pay the £9.5m buy out clause and sell him for £30m then we would make £11m profit.
Wandering Star's banter replies
05 Dec 2024 22:17:28
Again you're right Bullysboy. After listening to the BBC GON interview, it seems he's just keeping the seat warm for the next manager. I think one of the major factors for our poor showing is the fact that we do not have a defensive coach. We have GON and Shaun Derry who were both midfielders, a GK coach and 2 other coaches who never played the game. I said a few days ago that someone like Lescott could come in and help if needed.
05 Dec 2024 21:14:04
All true but Bournemouth did replace him with Iraola who is only a year older but doing so much better. Them there is also Hurzeler at Brighton who is relatively inexperienced.
I don't think GON has the tactical nous but there are others who seem to. Michael Carrick springs to mind.
05 Dec 2024 17:52:25
Indeed Bullysboy.
After last night, especially given the performance, I don't think GON has any credit left in the bank and Fosun lost the fans respect a while ago.
04 Dec 2024 23:23:46
£20m for Johnstone? Are you sure?
04 Dec 2024 23:11:15
Preston, are you talking about the 6-0 hammering in 1985. I honestly don't know if I was there or not as I wasn't born until early 1986 so unless my mother went whilst she was carrying me.