03 Aug 2017 06:51:52
Just can’t wait for this season to start now, opening day and a full house at the Mol does it get better?! Thanks for the welcome guys and I feel I should to respond Ulf (as I’m guessing that’s how this works? ). First and foremost just to say I think its pretty safe to say I am not going to change your mind on this which is fine as everyone has an opinion and that seems to be the point here…. but ;)

You do seem to have a lot of fairly personal knowledge regarding Beniks thoughts and private conversations with the club which I have to assume is purely conjecture on your part?! How do we know they promised him anything player wise, seems unlikely considering who was in control of the cheque book at the time?

Speaking of if he REALLY believed that we’d replace Sako like for like then he was an absolute fool as it flew entirely in the face of Morgans stewardship. To replace Sako would have cost around £7-10m…more than we had spent collectively in the previous three windows combined!

I also take serious issue with the ‘well he was lied to so was entitled to be sulky/ lazy…. complete nonsense! He’s a grown adult and a (very) well paid professional at that so simply being in a sulk cause your friend isn’t with you is pathetic and also shows a lacking of the kind of mental strength needed at the top level, I mean let's get real he’d only signed a contact six months before!

Also you seem to write off that initial stint in the Prem as a settling period which I will allow but how about last season? He had a full preseason with the club, a good run at the first team with Wilson injured for much of it and still only 6 goals in 32 apps…. to put that into context Junior Stanislas scored more in fewer appearances (7 goals, 22 apps) and he’s a winger (and an average one at that)!

Also Camo just to say I would seriously debate that Ebanks-Blake was far more clinical than Benik, in his first two seasons with us Blake scored 37 goals in 60 apps whereas Benik was 22 goals in 46 apps. Sadly like Benik though Blake never could quite do it in the Prem…real shame that.

Besides all that the fact is we have absolutely not a clue that he would even return, but I suspect not. For which I wouldn’t blame him because to return to a previous club and bouncing back down a league is pretty much accepting that he’s not good enough for the Prem and whilst you may be sure of the lads ego I think for any player that would be a tough pill to swallow, let alone a player that had a rather public spat with the club after leaving! Just my view of things but there ya go UTW.

1.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 07:15:20
Welcome BullysBoy. Excellent post. Some common sense - sometimes sadly lacking here :-)

2.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 08:15:42
The main issue with Adobe in the second season was Jacketts complete mis-management of a 22 year old. He allowed him to drift around mainly dropping into midfield, which left us short up top. I agree that no one should sulk when being paid so much, but I am afraid it is human nature.

3.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 08:19:44
Wow is that you Jez?

4.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 09:13:42
the main issue with Adobe is you have to keep updating flash player.

5.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 09:50:56
Afobe was quite a flash player for us. Never an acrobat though.

6.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 10:45:14
At the end of the last game in the 2014-2015 Season, Moxey publicly and very loudly declared that we were going to replace Sako, and that Morgan knew it was going to cost proper money. He did it at the stadium, the E7S ran a big article on it. They could have got young Ince. Then they didn't bother at all, they replaced Sako with a free loan of a junior development player off Morgan's mates at Liverpool.

Moxey actively lied about replacing Sako with a player costing decent money, to pretend ambition, to sell more season tickets, and to help keep our best players. They misled everyone, hoping to wing it to the Prem on a shoestring before Morgan sold at a profit.

And that's common knowledge. The fact they didn't replace Sako, and then also sold PotS Stearman, is why fans turned on Morgan in the carpark at Preston. M&M misled everyone over that last season.

I still want Thelwell to leave the club over what he said about Afobe, he was just trotting out Moxey's spin doctoring BS, trying to blame Afobe for Moxey's and Morgans ducking and diving. Zero class.

7.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 11:30:51
Ulf, I don’t disagree that the two M’s were pulling the wool during that entire episode with an eye on the future sale of the club that’s all kind of a different debate. What I take issue with is your assumption that Afobe was just a mere victim in his transfer who had his hand forced which is nonsense and makes out like he is some child that things just happened around. The fact is he had his head turned in that same transfer window before we’d even had a chance to replace Sako and that was why he got the sulk. I don’t blame him for it, many other players have (and looking at our current team sheet) no doubt will in the future also have their heads turned…. it’s the nature of the beast! Still let's not re-write history and pretend that he was some martyr to the club eh, he got a sniff of the Prem (not to mention Prem wages) and didn’t want to wait around for it simple as that! Also AGAIN you have completed swept over his entirely average performances for all of last season…thoughts on that?
Don’t get me wrong if we re-signed him I don’t doubt that he would score at this level and of course I would back him all the way. BUT if he did come back (which I find entirely unlikely on his part) I would want it to be on loan, so he can help us out of this league without having to spend big money on a player who looks increasingly like he will never cut the mustard in the Prem!

8.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 11:32:52
Also they sold Stearman cause he is also distinctly average! In fact they did darn well to get what they did for him with just 12 months left on his contract! Which is also why he didn't cut the mustard second time round or at Fulham. A Fulham defence which when they signed him was one of the worst in the league. and they still sent him out on loan the following season!

9.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 12:21:11
M&M kept Afobe that summer, by promising to spend money and bring in a decent player to replace Sako, to maintain our push for the Prem, then they didn't. It was a con to sell season tickets and to keep Afobe, Morgan was gambling for big personal profit, on a free loan from Liverpool doing the job, he was gambling much longer odds on promotion than he was leading others to believe were the odds, and then when the gamble failed, expected other people to carry on regardless, making the best of it. When they complained, he threw a strop and pretended fans had upset him so much he was selling the club. If I was Afobe, I'd think I'd been lied to, cynically used, and treated like a fool.

It was typical Moxey, he misled, created false expectations, then blamed others for them, he tried to blame Afobe for him not going along with being misled and his time wasted.

10.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 12:25:00
Being sold in that manner, after being PotS, Stearman's head had obviously gone at Fulham.

We were in league winning form for the last half of the previous season, Stearman was part of that. We had a promotion winning team, and M&M broke it and lost all of its momentum.

11.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 12:44:01
Re Afobe being over sensitive. Often, very gifted people have their gifts because of their brain makeup, it's part of natural human bio-diversity consequential of evolution. Most of the population are left brained / evolved into settled farmer types, are objective, patient, measured, achieve things by putting a shift in. Then there's also a minority of people who are right brained, like hunters. It potentially makes them physically much faster and more capable, they run on instinct and are in the zone, they achieve things with moments of magic. They tend to end up drop outs, or artists, or sportspeople. Like George Best, or Ozzy Osbourne or Syd Barrett, like loads of stars. The Americans call it A-List disorder it effects so many gifted stars. They need to be treated with kid gloves, because by their nature everything is more immediate and real to them. M&M treated Afobe like he was a bricklayer putting a shift in, it was completely wrong.

With the much higher quality / gifted players we'll hopefully be seeing in our future, Wolves fans need to start accepting stars are difficult, and not because they're spoiled.

12.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 12:51:44
Haha, brilliant so now Stearmans lack of ability is somehow Fulhams fault as well?! Weirdest thing then that the season they got rid was also there best season in a while, must be coincidence that eh! Also you are showing the classic example of those rose tinted specs I spoke of, I saw virtually every home game Stearman played at the club and the fact is he is an average champ defender, not a bad one I grant you just not a good one. Which is also why he has found himself at a newly promoted Sheff Utd rather than any other clubs coming in for him.
Speaking of rose tinted for the last time (as I feel we are going round in a Morgan based circle which had nothing to do with my original point) what about Beniks VERY average season last year then?! Let me guess Bournemouth’s fault for not buying him the right coloured boots?! My word footballers get an easy ride, make more in a week than most do in a year and still have ZERO accountability for their own performance… cause its always the club that’s at fault and never the other way round…. ridiculous!

13.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 13:10:09
Hi I'm new here but been following this page for about a year now. (Not sure if my previous post submitted) but anyway. In regards to Bonatini I think that we shouldn't be quick to assume that he won't be able to cut it in the championship because he played in a league not up to the standard or pace of the championship because statistics should do the talking. As I'm sure you already know he scored 20 goals for Estoril in 37 games which is a good return. They finished 8th that season so they aren't a poor team but they are no Benfica or Porto with champions league players. Remember that now he has Cav Costa Jota Graham Neves etc supplying him. I'm happy to be corrected or receive a counter argument but just my opinion. I agree also with a previous post I saw earlier that he may not be the 20 goal a season striker but Cav Costa Jota could chip in with 10 or so each!

14.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 13:17:00
I think to a certain extent Afobe's head has gone, because of the manner of the transfer and trying to fit into a new team at a higher level, I think his confidence is down. I think he needed to get a team promoted to the Prem, earn a golden boot in the process, and hit the Prem running in a team he was already gelled with, like Andre Gray did. And, Bournemouth fans seem to think him a better Prem player (or at least prospect) than Burnley fans seem to think Andre Gray is. With Nuno as coach, I think he'd kickstart Afobes development again, and at 24 has the chance to develop.

Re Stearman, teams get promoted with lots of average players, like Burnly did, it's not about top quality in all positions, it's about team spirit and momentum. Stearman worked in a team mix that worked.

15.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 13:46:58
My word Ulf you don’t half try to turn your own views and conjecture into fact, all that stuff about ‘players heads gone’ is entirely your own assumed opinion rather than based on any REAL knowledge of that players mental state! If Afobe needed to win a golden boot maybe he should have hung around long enough to earn one?! You also seem to spend a lot of time finding excuses for players whilst ignoring the glaringly obvious…ie they just ain’t that good! Some players make a fine trade in the Champ whilst never being up to the Prem and I think both Stears and Benik are proving to fit that mold.
Anyway I think this debate is done…. mostly because you just compared the ‘genius’ of Benik ‘I can’t get into the Bournemouth squad’ Afobe to that of George Best?! One of the most technically gifted players to EVER kick a ball…. I mean are you actually serious?! To be honest with that level of blinkered Benik appreciation this whole debate becomes pointless as you are clearly unable to approach this from an impartial place. So let's agree to disagree and both have a good season, besides I should be thanking you as you have entirely proven my point regarding our fans ability to look back with a rose tinted view of things. Just try not to moan too much about a board that have already spent more than the club was worth when they bought it on recruitment alone eh ;)

16.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 14:56:04
I didn’t compare the ability of George Best with Afobe, just like I wasn’t comparing his singing ability with Ozzy or his song writing ability with Barrett. I was pointing out performers / stars have different personalities and difficult temperaments, it goes with their gifts.

And genius is the wrong term, it’s not a clever idea, it’s natural, they’re better at it the less they think, they’re faster / more correct precisely because they think less or bypass thinking altogether. They run on instinct and emotion instead, which is why they’re so difficult. They can get themselves in a mess thinking too much, which is what I think Afobe has ended up doing.

I understand some players are like they are doing a trade. But the people with star potential and real quality, like Afobe, aren’t doing a trade, they’re artists / hunters, not architects / farmers, and treating them like tradesmen can do no good. Morgan and Moxey seeing everything like a trade is exactly how they got everything wrong at Wolves.

I think some Wolves fans are in for a shock, the modern World does intellectualise and conjecture, the big clubs are full of fans doing it, without it being being shouted down as crazy or them accused of being WUM's. The modern World is knocking on Wolves door :-)

17.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 15:02:37
Hope we never see Afobe in a Wolves shirt. He is unprofessional with an attitude problem, doe not seem prepared to get down and graft. He has an excellent management team at Bournemouth who have given him every help but he does not seem able or willing work for his team.

18.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 15:02:37
Also, re Fosun have spent more than the club is worth. Yes I've done nothing but praise Fosun, but they're not doing us a favour, Wolves has the identity and brand potential to be worth it. We deserved owners like Fosun and this kind of investment to take us back to the top of football, thought Morgan was a fool not doing that himself, he had completely the wrong ideas, and I predicted we deserved this since Morgan put the club up for sale. It is fated.

I've no doubt Fosun will make it work, but it may take several seasons. I hope not though and hope it's this one :-)

19.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 16:05:41
Oh dear Ulf, I think its you that misunderstands as you seem to be confusing intellectualising with your own complete uninformed assumption regarding any given situation then taking that assumption as FACT when it really isn’t. Truth is you know nothing of the inner dealings/ thoughts of Benik or the club for that matter (as do none of us), you simply think by dressing it up in psycho-babble that you justify nothing more than one fans opinion. I LOVE that you REALLY believe that you are a step a head of Wolves in terms of sports psychoanalysis…I mean they only have paid professionals doing it as a career at the highest level it so what would they know …. hilarious!
Only thing funnier is your unwavering belief in Beniks ‘star potiential’ despite all proof otherwise 10 goals in two Prem seasons at 24 at this rate he’ll be retired before realising that potential . Afobe an artist behave…he’s a top end Chump striker at best and from what I can see pretty much everyone (including other fans and clubs) can see that bar you! I mean let's get real again, there are hardly teams knocking the door down to sign him, jez even we’ve been non-committal. Clearly all those trained professionals around the game just don’t know a genius when they see one, including Arsene Wenger…but then what does he know about developing young talent?! Cheers though, I needed a good giggle mate ;)

20.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 16:08:33
Re Wimbournewolf, Bournemouth are a phoenix resurrection on a mission, with a team and manager gelled by it all. It may be why Afobe has struggled to fit in, and I trust Nuno, whose on recording professing he improves players and has backing of Mendes and trust of people like Neves, to be in another coaching league altogether. Especially with Portugal Euro Champs, remembering Mendes saying after Germany won World Cup Spain were in decline and the future was Portugal. It's Wolves too, Afobe should come back to get better, be with the future :-)

21.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 16:53:28
BullysBoy, I didn't suggest Afobe was top Prem potential, but he's a quality Prem player in the right team and system, and there's every reason to believe he'd fit with our system and get the goals to see us promoted. That's as much as Andre Gray offers, but 2 years younger so with more potential and safer investment on holding value while he did a job before resale. That was the point.

As for the rest we’ll have to agree to disagree. I haven’t stated anything as fact, obviously just my opinion, what seems to me to be common sense. And Wolves psychology hasn’t been great has it, let lots of good players pass them by. RVParra is a recent example, on the back of a sensitive talent because he didn’t put a shift in, ejected from the club to go and win promotion with Huddersfield. And score against us in the process. Their local newspaper described him as sensational in Feb 2017.

:-)

22.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 18:07:59
A few interesting points brought up regarding afobe. If i remember right his head was turned on a big move for him way before bournemouth snapped him up. Norwich chased him with numerous overtures for months. There was a difference in sako and his demeanour in that sako continued to put a shift in yet like a few have stated afobe lost interest.

Ulf is right in that moxey spun the yarn in that he was going to spend big to replace him which as we all knew was bull.
The bottom line is what's dones done, leave our rubbish parts of history where it belongs under the file of bhattis, chorley, etc.

Afobe has shown that he can't take the next step. Also wouldn't be an assett or any value in buying him if he did want to move, ie always sell at a loss. Remember the shelf life of a footballer at any club is short.

23.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 18:21:22
Ulf, if Afobe can not blossom under the excellent management, motivation and nurturing at Bournemouth, he seriously has not got what it takes. There is no better set up to bring the best out of players who want to work. He seems to think he is a megastar without having done anything of great merit. Sure, he has talent, but no application, something Eddie Howe, or any other manager will not waste time on.

24.) 03 Aug 2017
03 Aug 2017 18:41:00
I suspect Bournemouth may be too business like / commercial, compared to Wolves which is more family / nurturing. It's the impression I got from their forum, and makes sense with their history, their turnaround and now inflated position. They're an operation, I'm sure a very nice one, they appear to have brought Afobe's mate Wiltshire on loan to the club to help him settle. Afobe professes about how it helped him settle and he's now in the right place. I don't think he's gelled and that's the issue, I think Nuno is more 'feel' than business like, I think he'd make more of him. Mendes trusts him with some of his best young players prospects.